1. Welcome to Game Makers Forums

    Whether you are a new, amateur or professional developer, you will find your place here.

    Register to Download Sample Code or Advertise your Project.

    Register also gives you the ability to be helped or help others:

    Dismiss Notice

Block code or not?

Discussion in 'DWM Feature Requests & Ideas' started by a_bertrand, Sep 11, 2016.

?

Shall we introduce block code?

Poll closed Sep 21, 2016.
  1. Yes, and quickly!

    20.0%
  2. Yes, but it can wait.

    80.0%
  3. No, that's not something useful.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Why do you ask? Make whatever you think is good.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. a_bertrand

    a_bertrand Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Hi,

    While working hard to reach our personal deadline and deliver a production ready product, we (I and 9tk9tk) wonder if we shall let game developer have a block code logic a bit like I did for ludiculus as an alternative of the scripting language currently offered. By that I mean, should the game owner be able to decide how to write code and switch from/to the block code view? Or we should just keep the scripting language?

    The problem is that currently many areas rely on the scripting language to add up more flexibility to the game owner. Areas like combats, stats, objects, skills currently do use the scripting language. And while we do offer some premade content we would expect that game owners continue the work with it. If somebody never developed or is scared by code, then he/she could drop the hopes to use our engine just due to that.

    What do you think? I know most of you guys are developers and certainly not scared about writing a couple of lines of code but you should think about new comers or game artists which don't have your skills.
     
  2. xGx

    xGx Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Messages:
    297
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Think a newcomer should stick to making a working default game. or atleast a working base before thinking about
    too many customisations. seen many fail that wanted to do too much at the start. a rpg is all about the gameplay and
    story. and think you already supplied a good base to do such.
     
  3. a_bertrand

    a_bertrand Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes the goal would be to offer default content which let you start with. But then I should maybe "hide" the code and only let them work on the basic things with a "advanced flag" to show those.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. a_bertrand

    a_bertrand Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I missed one area => object and object types. This is where actually you should put in some efforts to make it so that your objects do have an action. I can't really avoid it. Sure I could make it work like NPC discussions, but then you would really be limited with the possibilities.
     
  5. G7470

    G7470 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    312
    Likes Received:
    136
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Web Applications Developer
    Home Page:
    My suggestion would be to be able to create a working default game with GUI interaction - essentially with zero code knowledge. That would include object and object types in my opinion.

    From there, you could allow developer interaction for those who would want to do so, giving them the ability to customize. If you are able to create such flexibility in your engine, it would hit multiple markets, driving more people to check out your engine. That would also mean more $$ that could be used to improve the engine as you go along.

    ~G7470
     
  6. a_bertrand

    a_bertrand Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks for your suggestion G7470G7470. I will check what I can do maybe making it a block code as I did it for Ludiculus is not all that complex and will solve most of the issue while keeping the scripting / text mode for more advanced users.
     
  7. Dominion

    Dominion Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2015
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    8
    This very largely depends who you're aiming it at. If you're going after the market with programmers it needs to be completely open. If not then I'd suggest control is actually better. Think Iphone vs android. Most people who own an android do the same as the majority of those who own an Iphone. Very few people actually root their phones and use everything else.

    On a product aimed at a mass market you're aiming at a "it works" approach and normally it's better if that isn't as open as programmers would want.
     
  8. Colum Ferry

    Colum Ferry Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Why not target both? Have a basic version and an advanced version and allow the user to choose what they prefer
     
  9. a_bertrand

    a_bertrand Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Never said that if I implement the blocks the current script code goes away. Actually my idea was that the same parser anyhow creates an AST and what you would do with the block editing is nothing else than editing the AST.

    Anyhow long story short => if I implement my idea you would have access to both. Only drawback is that some of the personal formatting or some comments may get lost if you edit first the code, then edit the blocks and then go back to the code.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Colum Ferry

    Colum Ferry Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    I think that's worth it. If someone starts off scripting, I don't think they will switch to block, or if they do they wont mind losing the comments etc.
     
  11. a_bertrand

    a_bertrand Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks for the feedback I will try to make some prototypes and then we shall see how it goes. I can also show my prototype once I have it running.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. a_bertrand

    a_bertrand Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    After some (bad) trials, I finally understood what the artist want. And this is not block programming. It is actually just my quick conditions / actions as the NPC and map actions has. Indeed that would help a lot more new comers and allows them to quickly make items with some actions on them.

    Remains to find how I can merge my currently scripted skills, monsters, stats and items with the option to just set quickly conditions and actions. Way not sure how I can make that.
     
  13. xGx

    xGx Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Messages:
    297
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    I hope this will make it all easier for you (in the future)
     
  14. a_bertrand

    a_bertrand Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well the concept is much easier, but I struggle how I could implement both without having some "clash".
     
  15. a_bertrand

    a_bertrand Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's time to resurrect this idea, as I still want to reach the widest possible market, having text scripts is really powerful (and we see it every days now), but it will certainly scares people which has no clues about programming. They will not even know what to type in. Not sure this block code is 100% user friendly either but may make things a bit more easier.

    For that I have a first test for a node view of the scripts. Clearly it's not the easiest script I choose (it's the default monster behavior as before), and the view is not ready either (would need still quite some work), but it should give an idea of how that could look like in my opinion. As you see it's a list of "boxes" with what kind of box it is, and the parameters under.

    https://dotworldmaker.com/tests/test_graphview.html

    The idea would be that you can add more blocks by choosing them from a list, and fill in the parameters in the same way. For most scripts it would work, comments currently are dropped but I could somehow maybe add them somewhere.
     

Share This Page